User talk:Vanilla Wizard

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Hi! Thanks for participating in the Articles for Creation June Backlog Drive! We've done amazing work so far, dropping the backlog by more than 2000 drafts already. We have around 400 drafts outstanding, and we need your help to get that down to zero in 5 days. We can do this, but we need all hands on deck to make this happen. A list of the pending drafts can be found at WP:AFCSORT, where you can select submissions in your area of interest. Thank you so much for your work so far, and happy reviewing! – DreamRimmer ■ 01:35, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you are approaching the 1,000 word limit in Talk:Iran–Israel_war#Requested_move_20_June_2025. From point 3 of the header on the article: All participants in formal discussions (RfCs, RMs, etc) within the area of conflict are urged to keep their comments concise, and are limited to 1,000 words per discussion. Citations and quotations (whether from sources, Wikipedia articles, Wikipedia discussions, or elsewhere) do not count toward the word limit. I got a count of about 899 words, though you may want to check my math. Aasim (話す（はなす）) 19:16, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Awesome Aasim:, thanks for the FYI. I've been keeping this limit in mind when commenting, I previously thought (erroneously) that I hit the per-discussion limit until I remembered that citations and quotations don't contribute to the count. I've been making sure to make my newer comments short and to the point.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:23, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings. I do note your reasons for rejecting Matthew Lani draft on the bases that without that one event he would be a low profile person. That is true. However, the main focus is about the one event he is known for, which made an impact in South Africa and internationally. The case still remains a life profile matter in South Africa. They are similar approved article known for only one even such as Thabo Bester. Yet it’s in mainspace. So I think the reason for rejection is abit harsh in this regard Ashleyashville (talk) 20:39, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ashleyashville:, WP:BLP1E is a Wikipedia policy that states the following:

We generally should avoid having an article on a person when each of three conditions is met:

1. Reliable sources cover the person only in the context of a single event.

2. The person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual. Biographies in these cases can give undue weight to the event and conflict with neutral point of view. In such cases, it is usually better to merge the information and redirect the person's name to the event article.

3. The event is not significant or the individual's role was either not substantial or not well documented. John Hinckley Jr., for example, has a separate article because the single event he was associated with, the Reagan assassination attempt, was significant, and his role was both substantial and well documented.

The one event Matthew Lani being associated with seems to be a scandal in which the subject exaggerated his credentials by claiming to be a doctor when he was not one, so the event would not be sufficiently significant to make the individual qualify for a Wikipedia article. As I was not the individual who reviewed the Thabo Bester page, I don't have an informed opinion on whether it was correct to approve that page or not. I reviewed this article based on my understanding of the relevant policy, not based on whether or not other stuff exists. It's possible thtat Thabo Bester also fails WP:BLP1E or WP:BLPCRIME, I can't say for sure as that was not the page I reviewed.

 Vanilla  Wizard 💙 20:51, 29 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there Vanilla Wizard! Thanks for your review of the page. I just need some clarification, please. The previous reviewers, Gheus, indicated that the band's EP DID meet notability criteria, but argued that the band did not. I drew up a notability table, it is in the talk page. Could I ask why you are suggesting the band/the EP does not meet WP:CREATIVE? There are multiple, independent, in-depth, reliable sources. Thx! Viljowf (talk) 06:10, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Viljowf:, thank you for reaching out to me! I agree with the previous reviewer that the EP is notable enough for a page as there's least a couple sources reviewing it, but I also have to agree that WP:BAND is the most relevant notability policy here and it's not as obvious that the band as a whole meets the threshold.

I've reread WP:CREATIVE a few times since reviewing your draft and I honestly think I was mistaken to agree that it's applicable here. WP:CREATIVE seems to be a catchall for handling types of creative works that don't already have their own unique criteria ("authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, and other creative professionals"), but music, musicians, and bands do have their own criteria: Wikipedia:Notability (music). CREATIVE is also very noticeably a criteria for biographical pages about individuals; it is not intended to be applied to organizations, groups, ensembles, companies, etc.

When I first looked at it and still thought CREATIVE was applicable but likely not yet met, I interpreted "a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series") as a higher bar than simply meaning anyone who's created at least one thing notable enough for an article, even if that article would be a short stub, is automatically notable enough for a biography page of their own.

But, to reiterate for emphasis, WP:AUTHOR/WP:CREATIVE is not actually applicable here, only WP:BAND is. I appreciate that you took the time to make a sources table and evaluate on your own which sources are useful for establishing notability, but I'm not so sure that BAND is met. There's 12 criteria that could be used to demonstrate that the band is notable, but it's not obvious that it passes any of them yet. Most of the handful of sources you marked as demonstrating notability are reviews of individual works, but I'm not seeing enough sources that focus on the band itself, so I don't think it passes at this time.

 Vanilla  Wizard 💙 18:55, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Vanilla Wizard, thank you again for your thoughtful reply and for taking the time to engage so deeply with the notability discussion!

I appreciate your clarification on WP:CREATIVE, and I see your point that it is typically applied to individuals. That being said, I’d like to revisit a few areas that I believe are still relevant to the band's notability — and to explain why splitting the article into an EP page is not in line with policy in the longer term.

Firstly, while WP:BAND provides a subject-specific guideline for musicians, it’s important to note that it does not override the general notability guideline (GNG) or associated frameworks like WP:CREATIVE. According to WP:N:

“Subject-specific notability guidelines do not override the general notability guideline, and satisfying either the general or subject-specific guidelines is sufficient for notability.”

In that light, the band article as a whole may still be viable based on coverage that meets the GNG — especially given the multiple independent, in-depth, reliable sources cited in the notability table. Some of those sources do focus on the band as a cultural or musical phenomenon, not just on individual tracks.

Secondly — and crucially — WP:NALBUM (Notability for albums and EPs) clearly allows for forthcoming releases to count toward notability if they are already being covered by reliable sources:

“Albums that have not yet been released can still be notable if reliable sources have already written about them in detail.”

— WP:NALBUM

The band’s second EP is forthcoming, and has already begun receiving coverage. Once it is officially released (which should happen within the next few months), the band will unambiguously meet WP:BAND by the letter of the guideline. In this context, creating a standalone stub for the EP and then merging it later into a unified band article would create an unnecessary fork — especially given that:

The article as it stands includes reliably sourced, encyclopedic content

Wikipedia policy (e.g. WP:MINIMUM) advises against overly short or fragmented pages when content can be usefully combined

The band's notability trajectory is clear, and time will only further consolidate their eligibility

I’m happy to continue improving the article, but I do believe there’s a policy-compliant case for keeping the current draft unified — and, given all the evidence - of considering GNG (with the provisions of CREATIVE) met.

Thanks again for your engagement — I genuinely value your time and the opportunity to think through this more carefully. Viljowf (talk) 11:23, 1 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sincerely appreciation for your kind review, I almost gave up on Wikipedia as the review took too long I thought that it's because I am new here. However I followed your recommendations and I amended the article Draft:Bongos Ikwue to followed neutrality rules. Once again thanks so much, and I think that you are one of the best on Wikipedia because you took sometime to note out reasons and ways to improve the article . Aliu Salau (talk) 23:54, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, for these kind words, Aliu Salau! I appreciate that you took the time to clean up the language. It looks like another editor has taken a look at the resubmitted version and approved it! Thank you for your work on this!  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 17:43, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve been working on a draft article titled Draft:Remi Aluko, and I believe it’s ready for review. I’ve submitted it through the Articles for Creation process, but I would really appreciate it if you could take a look whenever you have the time, and affect the article for approval if it qualifies Any feedback or suggestions for improvement would be very welcome!Gracias. Aliu Salau (talk) 01:42, 3 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Aliu Salau:, I took the time to read through Draft:Remi Aluko and its sources, and here's what I've come up with. This review is very long, so I apologize in advance for that.

To start, I see that YouTube is cited several times throughout the page. YouTube should not be cited as a source in most instances (the only example I can think of for when it would be fine would be if the subject is a YouTuber and it's used to cite information about statistics such as their current subscriber count). A link to a YouTube video cannot be cited as a source for a specific statement.

Take for example this sentence, which has quite a few issues:

"his performances are further elevated by his signature dance style a dynamic fusion of traditional alujo with fuji dance and contemporary self-modified disco movements which adds a unique and compelling element to his stage presence."

This is written in a non-neutral manner (praising the subject in Wikipedia's own words), reads like something ChatGPT would write, and cites YouTube. We can't cite a YouTube video of one of his songs and use that as a source to say he blends this movement with that movement, as doing original analysis on a primary source like a video would be original research; Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought.

Other examples of problematic sentences:

"Toronto Birthday Concert – Toronto, Canada (Sept 14, 2024) Marking both his birthday and global reach" There are a few problems with this. There's no source cited, it's confusing because the article says his birthday is September 29th not September 14th, and starting this sentence with "marking both his birthday and global reach" is editorializing. If a secondary, reliable, independent source said something like "this was his first concert outside of Nigeria" then we can mention, but not phrased as saying this marked "global reach" as that phrasing makes it sound like a huge accomplishment.

I've also decided to look through the sources and how they're being used in the draft.

Sources list:

1. dailypost.ng - This outlet is probably fine, but I'd just use it to cite the fact that he performed at the Olojo festival. There shouldn't be a product endorsements section (I'd delete that from the draft entirely), and this source is also being used to cite the "his performances are further elevated by his signature..." sentence even though the Daily Post article doesn't actually say that.

2. punchng (cited 2 times) - I think what you could do with the "Lords of fuji music" source is write something along the lines of "The Punch listed Aluko as one of the "Lords of fuji music" and commented on the significance of Aluko being a Christian artist in a genre that has historically been viewed as Islamic."

3. fujinaija (cited 2 times) - This outlet might be unreliable as it appears to be a celebrity-oriented tabloid similar to WP:CELEBRITYNETWORTH. That said, it might still be okay for what you're using it for (verifying some basic info about his life & verifying that he collaborated with another artist) so it can probably stay.

4. crystal.com.ng - The way this source is being used in the article is to write "his versatility and innovative contributions have earned him recognition as a key figure in the evolution of [...]", which is a non-neutral thing to say in Wikipedia's voice. What you could do instead is phrase it more like Nigerian celebrity news site Crystal praised Remi Aluko as a "renowned fuji musician" known for his "dynamic stage presence and captivating fuji beats.".

5. thenationonlineng.net - This is fine, the source is about him remarking on the importance of digital marketing and the draft says exactly what the source says.

6. pmnewsnigeria.com - This source is cited 2 times, I think the second link automatically redirected me to a scam website telling me to call a number for Microsoft Support. If it wasn't the pmnewsnigeria website it was one of the other ones, but we can't cite sources that can redirect readers to harmful webpages. I would remove this source from the article.

7. leadership.ng - This is cited 2 times, first to say he performed yearly at the festival, second to say he received an award, but the source only mentions him once in a list of people who performed at that year's concert.

8. merygold.biz - This is fine for saying he received the 2012 Merygold Fuji Music Award, I would probably list that under the history section instead of having a dedicated awards and achievements section.

9. legit.ng - I wouldn't include a sentence about him being one of the top 15 wealthiest Fuji artists as this would likely be considered trivial and the reliability of celebrity net worth estimates has been questioned before.

10. infoguidenigeria.com - I would move this into the history section as a sentence stating that he received the Nigerian Music Awards Best Fuji Artist Award (though you'd maybe want to find a second source to verify which year he received this award since this source doesn't seem to mention that). I would remove the rest of the Awards/Achievements section.

11. independent.ng - When I tried to view this source, there was no text. It starts with "Here are the highlights of the first day" and then just ends there.

Lastly, in order to establish that this person is notable enough for a Wikipedia article, there needs to be some sources that provide substantial amounts of in-depth coverage about them, articles written about them where they are the main topic of the article, not just someone who is mentioned in the article. At this time, I can't say that this has been sufficiently demonstrated, but there could be more sources out there.

TL;DR: Here's what I think the steps are to getting this draft approved

• 1) Remove unreliable sources
• 2) Rewrite non-neutral sentences and only say what sources say (attribute opinionated quotes to the sources rather than having Wikipedia say them)
• 3) Avoid using generative AI for assistance with writing articles (if you were using it)
• 4) Locate some articles online that are just about Remi Aluko rather than sources that only mention Remi Aluko. Or, if there's not many sources that are just about him, you may be able to find some more sources that at least provide lengthy and in-depth analysis or critique of him/his work.

So while I have to agree with some of the past reviewers that the page is not ready to be published right now, I think this should give you a very clear idea of how to get the page ready.

 Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:21, 3 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone got you as a mentor, they should be very successful in life, I'm proud to have someone like you advice me.

I took all your recommendations personal and I made necessary changes to best of my abilities. I worked on the Neutrality and formated and included credible citations.

What is very certain is that no single Yoruba man in all over the world could denied Remi Aluko notable, that being said, I agree that my submission may have been inproperly factorized, so I'm open to all opportunities to make the page worthy.

I was having challenges about the Neutrality Rules, well I guess i am improving. Gracias, Gracias. Because of you I'm becoming a better writer and believing more in my self. Aliu Salau (talk) 07:41, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]