User talk:Arturo 7

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Welcome!

Hello, Arturo 7, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --ScienceApologist 19:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]


A few different issues.[edit]

First, please note that I deleted Oopart since it was redundant to OOPArt and you said on the talk page that it was a mispelling. Second, regarding this edit: please be aware of Wikipedia's No personal attacks policy and also that Wikipedia's goal is to write neutral encyclopedia articles, not to debate the validity or not of specific ideas. Thanks. JoshuaZ 01:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

License tagging for Image:000 7289.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:000 7289.jpg. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

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Thanks for uploading such a cool picture of yourself. However, it needs an image tag. If you are the image creator, decide which tag you want to use. Here are a few tags you can choose from. Pick one, click 'edit' on your image, and add the tag at the end of the image editing page, on its own line. If you're not the artist, ask the artist which tag you should use. Thanks!
  • {{cc-by-sa-2.5}}—Creative Commons Attribution-Sharealike. This is one of several CC licenses. This version permits free use, including commercial use; requires that you be attributed as the creator; and requires that any derivative creator or redistributor of your work use the same license.
  • {{pd-self}}—Public Domain. There is some question whether it is possible under existing law to release one's work into the public domain; but this is still the "license" of choice for some.

Thanks for your help! happy editing! Verloren Hoop 18:58, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Falsifiable[edit]

Just a note: you are using the word "falsifiable" wrong on your user page. You have currently written: The Genesis account is a falsifiable truth, as it cannot be proven wrong but that doesn't exactly mean it's right. "Falsifiable" means, roughly "can be proven wrong," so "it cannot be proven wrong but that doesn't exactly mean it's right" is only correct if you mean that the theory in question is not falsifiable. Just though I would try to clarify that, since it looks like either a misunderstanding of the meaning or else a typo. :-) --Fastfission 00:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And while we're on the topic of misunderstandings.[edit]

You may also want to be aware that Java Man was almost certainly not a gibbon. Among other problems, the skull is much to large. See [1]. Also, the claim about part of it being found 70 miles away is a misunderstanding arising from the same group discovering 70 miles away the Wadjak skull pictured here [2]. JoshuaZ 03:26, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks JoshuaZ for the awareness. Perhaps the femur was more recnt that the skullcap, so then as a matter of fact we must assume that they were not even related species. Java man had 940 cc, perhaps being most likely some king of athrophied human or something like that. You just got the skullcap. Java man is allegedly a homo erectus, just like the Peking man, right? That's just trusting in C14 dating, and for your sadness a recently dead seal in Antarctica was dated 1300 years old by C14. How could it have been 1300 years old if it had been killed 3 days ago?--Arturo #7 03:35, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't want to get in an extended discussion with you about this on Wiki (if you want to continue over email, that would be fine). I was merely pointing out that Java man was not at all Gibbon like. Also, I did not intend to make any claim that Java man is by itself very useful evidence- we have many other homo erectus remains at this point. Your others claims are similarly flawed or misguided. Note for example, that seals could easily be found to be much older by C14 dating than they are due to the reservoir effect (which is why when dating marine life using C14 one often needs to think carefully about what sort of life it was and what its habitat was (and why one in fact often uses other methods to cross-calibrate)). JoshuaZ 03:44, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Recreation of deleted material[edit]

Please do not recreate deleted material such as template:User christian... thanks. I've deleted this template. ++Lar: t/c 20:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

it's your stuff if you do believe or not in God, do not parrot your lame ideas into others. --Arturo #7 20:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer to keep discussions threaded, see the header on my talk page, so I've refactored to here, and you can answer here. I deleted this template under the criteria for speedy deletion, G4 (recreation of deleted content)... This template, and similar ones, has been debated and deleted multiple times. Please review our policies in this area. Also, the use of the term " parrot your lame ideas" could be viewed as incivil. Please review our civility policies and keep them in mind for further comments, thanks. Finally, there are review processes if, after reviewing our practices and policies, you really think this deletion was not justified... ++Lar: t/c 20:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So then why was it deleted? =S--Arturo #7 21:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
CSD G4, as I said before, "Recreation of previously deleted material". This template is divisive and it (and close variants) have been deleted multiple times already. See the Templates for deletion archives. Note also that the template has been userified, if you really want to use it, see User:Xoloz/UBX/User_Christian and transclude it onto your page and change it around as you see fit. ++Lar: t/c 10:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
what do you mean by divisive? I'm just asking why it was deleted the first time.. There are templates for atheists and agnostics I guess, so why shouldn't there be a template for christians? Seems kinda suspicious..--Arturo #7 15:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:GUS and User_talk:Xoloz/UBX/User_Christian. If you are unhappy with this, take it to WP:DRV. This box has been discussed to death many times. Note that "X is bad and Y is bad and X exists so why can't Y exist" is invalid as an argument here. The atheist and agnostic templates need to go too. Sorry, I'm done with this, there's nothing more to say. ++Lar: t/c 16:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A1 articles[edit]

Please stop creating singe line articles or articles that have nothing but a category. They are deleted on sight. - CHAIRBOY () 17:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Caria civilization, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a direct copy from http://s8int.com/page39.html. As a copyright violation, Caria civilization appears to qualify for speedy deletion under the speedy deletion criteria. Caria civilization has been tagged for deletion, and may have been deleted by the time you see this message. If the source is a credible one, please consider rewriting the content and citing the source.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GFDL, you can comment to that effect on Talk:Caria civilization. If the article has already been deleted, but you have a proper release, you can reenter the content at Caria civilization, after describing the release on the talk page. However, you may want to consider rewriting the content in your own words. Thank you, and please feel free to continue contributing to Wikipedia. --  Netsnipe  (Talk)  21:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm currently working on this article, and I'll edit on my own words but I used the s8int.com stuff as a basis for it. I'm trying to find more external documentation on the findingd, perhaps doesn't seem to work out so well. As it seems like www.misteromania.it is the sole site providing good information on the Caria unknown civilization, I'm going to ask for permission to translate and publish it, perhaps how could I put the authorization tag here? Could you explain me please? Thanks --Arturo #7 21:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Helpme tag[edit]

Do you require assistance? —JD[don't talk|email] 21:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, thanks for coming! I was working on an article on an alleged unknown civilization near Girifalco, Italy. But a more in-depth research led me to just 2 results on Google about it, so that doesn't make sense. Is it just a hoax? --Arturo #7 21:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I can't tell you if it's a hoax or not, but I can advise you on what you should do; but I'll have to see the page first. Also, in future, you should put the {{helpme}} tag on your talk page, and wait for somebody to answer it; they'll remove it for you. —JD[don't talk|email] 21:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This alleged unknown calabrese civilization doesn't have a proper name and doesn't have so much sources. --Arturo #7 21:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Does the subject of that page has its own Wikipedia article? —JD[don't talk|email] 21:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have to put the hang on on the article page not the discussion page.[edit]

Read the template on your article and follow the instructions. It tells you exactly were to put the hang-on. Mattisse(talk) 21:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image tagging for Image:Titulus.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Titulus.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

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This template was already deleted per WP:GUS. I have migrated your userbox. You need not do anything more. Regards, alphaChimp laudare 00:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been looking at your contribs, and wanted to make the following suggestion:

I would like to thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. However, it is recommended that you use the preview button before you save; this helps you find any errors you have made, and prevents clogging up recent changes and the page history. Thanks again. alphaChimp laudare 00:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New location is User:Evan C/Userboxes/User Architecture. alphaChimp laudare 00:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In regard to Portal:Creationism, you may want to be aware that WP:NPOV applies to portals as well. JoshuaZ 02:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • In regard to [[Portal:Evolution, you may want to be awat that WP:NPOVapplies to portals as well, and it regards evolutionary proccesses as factual. That's a clear NPOV violation--Arturo #7 02:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
First, I don't believe there is a Portal:Evolution. Second, even if this hypothetical portal did treat evolution as a fact, that would only be an NPOV problem under a limited set of circumstances- for example if it noted that the vast majority of scientists accept evolution, or called it a "scientific fact" - the first would be defintely acceptable, and the second would be possibly with NPOV. Third, even if there were a Portal:Evolution the correct thing to do would be to bring up possible NPOV issues there not create a rival portal with the other POV (please see WP:POINT). JoshuaZ 02:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I mistook, in Biology portal evolution is treated as a fact. There's a WikiProject for evolution. And the main idea for this Creationism portal is not supporting it, it's rather debating issues between evolution and creation. A skeptical developing a creationism portal. Notice that is NOT a creationist portal (it would be more likely to support creationism as it's cevouted to it the term "creationist"), it is a CREATIONISM one, regarding it as a valid topic. Stop bothering with nonsense. You might be blind if you don't see the clear NPOV violation across Biology Portal. This portal will be treated according to Wikipedia's NPOV policy, rather than "consensus-defined" topics like mainstream science. Or does the word consensus mean true to you? If the entire catholic church has an unproven consensus over Mary's virginity, does it make it true? No. Consensus are for unproven stuff and their belief is a matter of faith, as they cannot be proven right. --Arturo #7 02:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
First, Wikiprojects are often given more leeway than normal space pages(since they are not encyclopedia content). Second, a Portal that claims that Creationism has "its roots in the truth behind the creation from a biblical perspective" is hardly NPOV regardless of what comments you make. Third, if you thinkt here is an NPOV problem at the bio portal, then bring it up there. However, there isn't one- the vast majority of biologists support and acknowledge evolution and to give any credence to creationism as a scientific idea would be undue weight. Fourth, even your claims contradict themselves because in the portal title you say that it is biblical and that it is scientific - theology and science are not the same things. As for the meaning of consensus, where science articles are concerned, we have well developed understanding of how to handle these matters. Remember, Wikipedia never cares about what is true, it cares about what is Verifiable. JoshuaZ 03:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I'm curious as to what directly on the bio page you think is so POV. At present there seems to be little evolution on the page. Did you have a specific sentence in mind? JoshuaZ 03:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's hard NOT to figure out what is so POV.. Just look at the Major fields in Biology... don't you read the Tree of Life and numerous references to evolutionary biology? And take a look at the millions of evolutionist references in all of those themes. --Arturo #7 03:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand, so now referencing evolution is POV? Do you think those aren't major areas of biology? Are you arguing that there are not thousands of researchers in those areas? I would think that even most diehard creationists would agree that these are major areas of biology. They might think that the conventional understanding of those areas is wrong, or they might think that the entire basis for those areas is flawed, but they would agree that those are major areas. Am I missing something here? (And keep in mind that even if it were POV, my above other comments still apply, especially WP:POINT) JoshuaZ 03:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
They refer as if they were essential and factual fields of biology. And oh I'm sorry, they're not. They're everything but a fact. Anyway I'm not interested in that portal, I'm developing this one as a true-false issue, not to counter any other wikiproject (a.k.a. Wikipedia:Wikiproject Evolutionary biology and its senseless references (nothing in biology makes sense if not under the light of evolution). Thanks for NPOVing the intro. --Arturo #7 03:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't touch the intro, someone else did. I also don't know what you mean as a true-false issue, but I can't reiterate more, that Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth. Also as I've attempted to explain before, Wikiprojects and portals are different and have very different rules applying to them. Additionally, I don't see anywhere the words "essential" and "factual" were used there. JoshuaZ 03:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(reduce indent) It seems to me that Arturo is really trying to create what should be a blog or private web page, not a WikiPortal. In addition, the selection of categories seems to be clearly POV driven, rather than following any logical rationale. For example, I'm at a loss as to how "Jesus" plays a part -- that seems to be a bit outside the issue. I'll need to look over the portal page further to see if any other clearly POV-driven cats/subjects/etc., play a part. •Jim62sch• 09:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Jesus will be used to show creationism-christianiy incompatibility. Thanks Arturo #7 16:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Er what? Your saying that Jesus shows that creationism and christianity are incompatible? I know a few people who think that, but given your earlier comments that seems a bit odd coming from you. Incidentally, you may want to be aware that a Wikiproject and a portal are very different- projects are behind the scenes for organizational purposes, not encyclopedic in themselves. Thus, projects should not be listed in "related portals" JoshuaZ 16:36, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is my first portal, and I'm working on the scheme of Biology Portal for it. I'm sure I'll make mistakes, like listing projects in related portals or putting a NPOV-violating intro, but it'd be smarter to correct these mistakes instead. And as a matter of fact, if you claim that this portal has a NPOV violation, tell me WHERE and I'll correct it. Just look at the numerous references to anti-creationism stuff, like evolution, continental drift and the Big Bang theory Arturo #7 16:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Er, I'd be highly surprised if the bio portal had anything about the Big Bang (that's physics and cosmology, not bio and has nothing to do with biological evolution)- a glance through confirms that there isn't anything there. At present your portal seems mainly NPOV, if any specific issues come up, I will be happy to point them out. (I also took the liberty of reincluding the project list and labeling them as projects rather than portals which should deal with that). JoshuaZ 16:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Lol, I refered to the anti-creationism references found in the Creationism Portal. Thanks for moving the project list! Arturo #7 16:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, that makes much more sense. JoshuaZ 16:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hey dude, the "feat" lists can be edited for changing once a while or they have to be edited maunaully every day? Arturo #7 16:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you are reffering to. Could you give a link? JoshuaZ 17:00, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Creationism's selected picture. I can't stand how to set a list of featured pictures for them to change daily. Is it possible? --Arturo #7 17:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not aware of a way to do so. For most portals that I keep track of they change it manually, and only once every few days or weeks. Only the very large portals with a lot of contributors change things daily. If you want a possible way of doing it I would ask on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). JoshuaZ 19:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Mystery Stone[edit]

Good news, we were given permission to use the images! I've put them back up, but I'm thinking of adding a different one for the second one. Have you seen the Historical Society's picture of the back of the stone? I think it's a better picture of the symbols we are describing in the article, so I may upload it later today.--TurabianNights 18:25, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, thanks so much! Currently I'm trying to re-edit the Noah's vineyard article as it was created when I was almost going to sleep so it lacked of any encyclopedic content at all, so that's why I erased it. I'll re-edit it and perhaps I'll look for more OOParts like that. Seems like a great topic for debate. Arturo #7 18:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
While I've got you on the line here, could we standardize OOPArts? I see them listed alternately as OOPArts and OOParts - I believe the former is the more correct, since "Art" is a separate word. As it is now, it looks like we're talking about "Out Of Parts" instead of "Out Of Place Art's." Thanks--TurabianNights 18:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I'm not sure Noah's Vineyard is an OOPArt, judging from what I've dug up about it. There's so little material on it, and most of it from Wyatt himself, don't you think it would do better as a section on the Wyatt page than a little stub in its own right?--TurabianNights 18:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've thought something else about it. On Wyatt's entry it already lists his claimed discoveries, so we could take a deep look at them and create an entry like Ron Wyatt's alleged discoveries for a general detailed view for all of them (ranging from Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant and the Exodus.Arturo #7 18:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Is there enough literature on that not written by Wyatt? I agree that could be very interesting.--TurabianNights 18:37, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... on Noah's Ark I've seen a lot of TV shows related to it, specially on the History Channel, and some about Wyatt's findings about the Exodus on a few creationists sites. I'll check them out on Google.Arturo #7 18:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just did a little Googling myself - don't know how reliable tentmaker.org is, but they've sure got Wyatt's number! Also, [[3]]. Work it up and we'll see how it goes - there is already some analysis of Wyatt's findings on the Wyatt page, and we wouldn't want things to get too redundant.--TurabianNights 18:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The more I read the current Ron Wyatt article, actually, the less I feel we need a separate page analysing his finds - what if instead we were to put info about Ron Wyatt onto the pages in question - Searches for Noah's Ark, Mt. Sinai, Sodom and Gomorrah etc. etc.? They'd probably be more apropos there.--TurabianNights 19:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Check this out: Ron Wyatt's alleged discoveries. I'm currently working on it, but I'll go out to my beach house for a few days (short vacation here in Chile =D) and I'll edit it later on next tuesday or wednesday. Check it out and tell me what you think about it. I'll later add a further research on each one of the alleged discoveries. Arturo #7 19:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do not remove WP:VFD notices from articles. I strongly suggest you restore it and make your case at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ron Wyatt's alleged discoveries. — Dunc| 14:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image copyright problem with Image:Noah's_ark.gif[edit]

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August Esperanza Newsletter[edit]

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Straight {{test3}} message for making edits clearly not meeting WP:V, WP:RS:

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. — Dunc| 21:03, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While I'm not sure Dunc should have given the above vandalism warning, I have also reverted your edition of the cat to a number of articles. For most of the people you added it for I'm not even sure the term makes sense in their time periods, and given that it wasnt a major issue for almost any of them it is at minimum over-categorizing. JoshuaZ 21:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
U r just parroting ur evolution ideas!!! C'mon who's a NPVOV admin here??? They WERE creationists, just READ their works =S. This "encyclopaedia" makes no sense with that POV thing u do...... Arturo #7 21:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh calm down. Labeling most of these people creationists is akin to labeling Fibonacci or Moses as geocentrists. I have not however, reverted you in four recent cases: William Thomson, 1st Baron Kelvin, James Young Simpson, Gregor Mendel and Carolus Linnaeus since creationism is relevant to them and some of them were more later time period where creationism was a distinct view in contrast to other viewpoints. However, I strongly suggest that you go to individual talk pages for each article you wish to put the cat on and discuss it there rather than going through en mass. JoshuaZ 21:21, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've also asked the uninvolved admin Slimvirgin to take a look at this conversation when she has a minute. Hopefully that will satisfy your desire for an uninvolved admin (although since this has nothing to do with admin related activities it isn't clear to me why you would want one anyways). JoshuaZ 21:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've also removed it from Rudolf Virchow because unless I'm mistaken he actually was not a creationist. This is why you should go through them individually. JoshuaZ 21:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OMG.....I'm NOT talking about being involved. I talk about a NEUTRAL point of view. Saint Isaac Newton WAS a creationist, like it or not. And do u think that if all past creationists were alive 2day they'd believe in evolution? Oh, assh*le.. B disappointed... Evolution and old-earth thought are PRETTY old. Democritus, for example, was an old earth creationist. And even post-darwin .scientists didn't back up evolution, like Lord Kelvin, Louis Agassiz, James Glaisher, James Joule, Louis Pasteur, Gregor Mendel, John Ambrose Fleming and MANY more. Even I'd dare to say that NO well-known scientist has ever supported evolution, perhaps Albert Einstein. Arturo #7 21:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Again, calm down. Pasteur wasn't (hence I just removed him) see [4]. Also, I think your defintion of well known scientisit is a bit small. And you seem to be confusing anti-evolution or skeptical of natural selection or favoring guided evolution etc. with creationism. As for other well known scientists, it isn't that relevant, but oh Sagan and Hawkins come to mine. Or Gould. Or about 10 others. But I have dinner now. In the meantime, please stop posting the category everywhere. And be mindful of WP:3RR. JoshuaZ 21:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh no, Pasteur was NOT a creationist according to who? A EVOLUTIONIST SITE? lol... you are so lame. do u no what a well-known scientist is someone who has made science greater. Galileo's telescope. Saint Isaac Newton's gravity. Pasteur's pasteurization.. what has Gould done 4 science except for promovin a THEORY? (evolution is just a theory, unluckily 4 u it hasn't been proven right EVER) Arturo #7 21:43, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
And researching again, guess what..... SAINT LOUIS PASTEUR was a creationist! :) Pasteur’s works on abiogenesis should have dealt the death blow to the idea of spontaneous generation. But spontaneous generation is an essential part of the theory of evolution. Despite all the efforts of evolutionary scientists, not one observable case of spontaneous generation has ever been found. Pasteur’s findings conflicted with the idea of spontaneous generation (as do all scientific results since). Consequently, Louis Pasteur was a strong opponent of Darwin’s theory. And keep on trying! The origin of the universe is a dicotomy: was or not created by God? That leads 2 3 types of answers, the yes, the no and the dunno. The yes stands for young earth creationism, the no for naturalist evolution and the dunno for theistic evolution. Saint Louis Pasteur couldn't have supported any form of evolution, haven't u heard of HIS Law of Biogenesis? Keep on trying evo-loser. Arturo #7 21:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There are many problems with what you've put above. First, abiogenesis and evolution are distinct issues. Evolution only cares about what happened once there was life, not how it got here. As far as evolution cares, life could have been made by God, aliens, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Invisible Pink Unicorn, Zeus, Krishna. Second, I don't know why you insist on this odd defintion of a "well-known scientist" since well-known generally means known by many (and on a related note, all scientists have "made science greater" that's what they do). Gould wrote many scientific papers and made extensive research and contributions in a variert of fields, so by your defintion he would be well-known. Third, in any case, the well-knownish issue is irrelevant; the issue is whether each of these articles should be marked as creationist. Fourth, spontaneous generation and abiogenesis are not the same thing at all. Nor for that matter does anyone claim that abiogenesis is currently ongoing on earth (one reason so many people want to send probes to Europa is because it might be occuring there) I suggest you read up on them and try to learn how they are different. Fifth, as to your claim that "hasn't been proven right EVER"- science doesn't care about proof for anything. Proof is for alcohol and math. At best science can give overwhelming evidence for a claim. Now assuming you mean no prediction of evolution has ever been found to be correct. I think the many pharmacologists and other doctors who use evolution to help model predict and test drugs would be a bit surprised by that claim to name just one example area. Sixth, if you actually read the relevant page I put above instead of dismissing it as a "EVOLUTIONIST SITE" you might notice that it gives a quote that makes it pretty clear that he wasn't a creationist by most definitions. Seventh, your attempted trichotomy (not a dichotomy since there are three options) is highly flawed. Among other problems with it, it ignores the existence of Old earth creationism and ignores the fact that theistic evolution is not as you make it somehow associated with agnosticism but is in fact a form of theism. I'm also puzzled as to why you feel a need to put the word "saint" in front of Pasteur and Newton's names. I'm not aware of any religion in which they have been canonized. Finally, regarding "Keep on trying evo-loser" I suggest you read WP:NPA. And to just rehash the primary point, none of this is relevant as to whether in individual articles the cats should be there or not. JoshuaZ 23:47, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Unfolding astonishing ignorance once again, how surprising? You claim evolution and abiogenesis are not the same thing. Ok, they're not, but haven't u heard of naturalist evolution?? It claims that life came out of nowhere, just like LeeLee Sobieski's career. And perhaps NO evolution model has ever been able to answer where did life come from. Life just doesn't pop out of inorganic matter, it hasn't happened and it won't ever. Second, u think Gould is even a "respected" scientist? lmao.. "well-known" scientists are people who have done something USEFUL. Did Louis Pasteur just write a paper? Absolutely not. He created pasteurization, the germ theory and he's the father of microbiology. Is Gould father of something else than his evolutionary ideas and marxism? not at all. Are u comparing Sagan and Hawkins with Saint Isaac Newton, Saint Johann Kepler, Saint Athanasius Kircher, Saint Francis Bacon, Blaise Pascal, Nicolas Steno, Galileo????????? You must be the king of shit mountain then. They had more science in their little finger than in Gould's white fat ass. Third, trust me, I'm not interested in trying to find "popping-out" forms on life in Io, Europa or whatever. Life is on earth and there's no doubt about it. Are there any insects living in the Moon? Or kittens in Mars? Not at all. Fifth, unproven theories are anything but science. Flat earth is a theory and is definitely not science. And, oh little disappointing, I wouldn't be surprised if pharmacologists developed something as it has NOTHING to do with the origin of universe. Maybe speciation in microbes but what does it have to do with evolution?. Sixth, I read it. I've read the entire site, and trust me, it's bullshit. Most of their claims make no scientifical sense. I wouldn't be surprised if that quote was invented by them. Seventh, do you know what a dichothomy is? Two based answers. Theistic evolution is not an answer, it's just a mix of both. Theistic evolution is just trying to believe in God but with evolution and go to hell in peace. Do you think OECs truly believe in God? I wouldn't be surprised if most of them are leftists. It is a form of theism, so what?? Evolution is a religion itself. The origin of the universe is a question that can only be answered by religions, like christianity and evolution. And eighth, canonization is stuff of the Roman Catholic church and I'm definitely not catholic. I'm a christian and I believe in the literal understanding of the Bible, and the Bible says that every believer is a saint. It makes more sense to me that true believers like Isaac Newton and Johann Kepler to be called saint, instead of John Paul II, for example. Arturo #7 19:18, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is going to most likely be my last reply on the matter since Wikipedia is not for debating but for constructing encyclopedia articles and this seems to be far off the original point. First, by "naturalistic evolution" you seem to mean philosophical naturalism which has little or no bearing on evolutin. And again, evolution doesn't say life came from nowhere, it just doesn't care. Where life came from is a question for biochemistry not biology. To use an analogy, if you ask me how I made some potato dish, and I give you all the steps starting with buying the potato at the store you don't reject my instructions and recipe because I don't know how the potato got to the store. It simply isn't relevant to the information I am trying to impart to you. I'm still puzzled by your defintion of "well-known." This may be a linguistic issue (I don't know what your native language is) but in English well-known simply means known by many. Your insistence that it has something to do with their work having applications is unique to you. In any event, as to the people you have mentioned, I think it would be hard to find much in the way of practical applications by Kepler or Galileo. I'm also puzzled by your claim that "more science in their little finger than in Gould's white fat ass" in that I don't know how you intend to measure levels of science (and to the sentence before that please mind the personal attacks). As to your not being interested in abiogenesis on other planets, you interest or lack thereof isn't relevant, and the idea that insects on the moon or kittens on mars would somehow be expected indicates a deep misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. Among other problems with that comment, the same thing would evolve twice with probability 0 and given how different the Martian and lunar environments are from earth's one would expect any life on them (if there were(there certainly isn't on the Moon)) to be radically different from life on earth (at minimum, there is no reason to expect chitin to evolve on multiple planets).
As to your fifth point, if you think "proof" has anything to do with science and continue to insist that "unproven theory" is somehow a bad thing that makes something not science, I strongly suggest you read a book on the philosophy of science or at least the intro chapter of most college science textbooks. As to the pharmacology point- perhaps I wasn't clear enough. A large amount of pharmacology research and related research using the evolutionary links between species to predict what species are good for modeling what (for example predicting that mice are good for modeling the human immune system). As to your related point about the origin of the universe- I don't know how many times I need to repeat this, evolution isn't about that, or about abiogenesis or much else. Please read evolution to get some idea what it is about. For all evolution cares the universe could have been created by God or Vishnu or could have been always around. It doesn't matter at all.
Sixth- calling a site "bullshit" does not in anyway actually refute any point, and you'll forgive me if given your track record I don't immediately decide to trust your view of what constitutes bullshit.
Seventh- as to the defintion of "dichotomy" it might help if you checked a dictionary. A dichotomy is two mutually contradictory possibilities. By defintion, a dichotomy cannot be a continuum, there is no middle ground. As to your claim that "Theistic evolution is just trying to believe in God but with evolution and go to hell in peace." and related claims, you may want to consider that you don't have a personal monopoly on faith nor on interpreting the Bible nor on anything else. I am shocked and appalled that anyone would have the arrogance to decide who goes to hell and who doesn't. Do you think on the final judgement you will be sitting at Jesus's right hand and telling him whether people should go to hell or not based on how old they thought the earth was? "Sorry, I know you have faith in me and accepted me as your lord and Savior and my blood washed away all your sins, but Arturo here says you thought the world was too old so you are going into the fire reserved for the devil and his angels"? Do you really think God is going to damn people based on believing how old the world is? Your comment about leftists is almost as appalling- the notion that somehow modern political alignments have something to do with whether people are good or evil or saved or lost or whatever is off the wall. And what for that matter do you even mean by "leftist"? After all, in most countries today it is the right that is in favor of capital punishment, and yet Jesus said "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." I could go on for hours, the point is that neither the "left" nor the "right" in any country have an agenda which has much to do with what Jesus preached. As to your insistence that evolution is a religion, again evolution doesn't care about the origin of the universe and such. And even if it, would that magically make it a religion? Do you see evolutionist churches or temples? Are there evolutionist doctrines? Do they call anathema on Lamarck?
Finally, as to asserting that Newton and Kepler were "true believers"- Newton had is own peculiar beliefs which rejected the Trinity and Kepler had similarly odd beliefs, not exactly true believers. It might help if you would do a little research before you claimed everyone as your own. JoshuaZ 21:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Personal attacks[edit]

To reinforce JoshuaZ's final point above, please stop making personal attacks on editors. If you are unable to remain calm and civil during discussion you may end up being blocked from editing. Comments like "Keep on trying evo-loser" and "you are so lame" are not appropriate. Thanks, Gwernol 13:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks[edit]

Thanks for helping with the editing of the Mackenna article. Didn't have time to finish it completely, hope to be able to do it soon...Mel Romero 02:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

September Esperanza Newsletter[edit]

Program Feature: Barnstar Brigade
Here in Wikipedia there are hundreds of wikipedians whose work and efforts go unappreciated. One occasionally comes across editors who have thousands of good edits, but because they may not get around as much as others, their contributions and hard work often go unnoticed. As Esperanzians we can help to make people feel appreciated, be it by some kind words or the awarding of a Barnstar. This is where the Barnstar Brigade comes in. The object of this program is to seek out the people which deserve a Barnstar, and help them feel appreciated. With your help, we can recognize more dedicated editors!
What's New?
September elections are upon us! Anyone wishing to be a part of the Advisory Council may list themselves as a candidate from 18 September until 24 September, with the voting taking place from 25 September to 30 September. Those who wish to help with the election staff should also list themselves!
Appreciation Week, a program currently in development, now has its own subpage! Share your good ideas on how to make it awesome there!
The Esperanza front page has been redesigned! Many thanks to all who worked hard on it.
Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.
  1. The proposals page has been updated, with some proposals being archived.
  2. Since the program in development Appretiaion week is getting lots of good ideas, it now has its own subpage.
  3. The September 2006 Council elections will open for nominations on 18 September 2006. The voting will run from 25 September 2006 until 30 September 2006. If you wish to be a candidate or a member of the elections staff, please list yourself!
  4. The new Esperanza front page design has but put up - many thanks to all who worked on it!
  5. TangoTango has written a script for a bot that will list new members of Esperanza, which will help those who welcome new Esperanzains greatly!
Signed...
Natalya, Banes, Celestianpower, EWS23, FireFox, Freakofnurture, and Titoxd
04:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Kindness Campaign[edit]

Arturo 7-
Please explain to me--how do I become a member of the Kindness Campaign? Just add my name? If you are of Esparenza and / or Concordia, please tell me the policy on that as well, too. Thanks. Get back to me on MY talk page.
Wikipediaman123 00:15, 7 October 2006 (UTC) TALK[reply]

Qualified support[edit]

I totally disagree with creationism, but I agree it would be useful to the debate to have this so called list of evidence. And I will not "vandalise" it by putting in al the obvious refutations. Go ahead and bud your list. But, to me it has nothing to do with science, it has everything to do with religion. You cannot deny others the right to categorise your articel as they feel appropraite. I'll leave your science-stub tag there if you'll leave my reli-stub there.

Otherwise, game on for an all out war to destroy your article, as being totally and obviously not NPOV. Your choice!--Richardb43 12:37, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • And do you think Evidence for evolution is a NPOV article?? You gotta be nuts. And you do know there are no refutations, as a matter of fact your theory is so leaky, most likely all theories in crisis.Arturo #7 12:41, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • No idea, I've never read the page. Perhaps if you refered to that page in your page it would be useful and informative. Obviously though, both are going to be POV. But hey, I said I support your right to have a view point, even though I strongly disagree with it. But I am interested to be more informed about what I "blindly" disagree with. So please, continue to build the page, to better inform us all.--Richardb43 12:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edit to Evidence of creation (diff) was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to recognize and repair vandalism to Wikipedia articles. If the bot reverted a legitimate edit, please accept my humble creator's apologies – if you bring it to the attention of the bot's owner, we may be able to improve its behavior. Click here for frequently asked questions about the bot and this warning. // AntiVandalBot 12:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Confine yourself to the encyclopedic summation of the evidence, not drift into pseudo-debate[edit]

Please do not have a debate in this evidence of creation page. Even more so, do not pretend to have a debate, where you put up what you suggest are evolutionists' (weak) arguments, and then yourself counter them. To do so will only invite a lot of counter debate from evolutionists.

The page will be more useful just as a basic list of your claims of the Evidence for Creation, or, as you seem to be doing, putting up evidence againt evolution (which is not really the same thing at all, but we can let that pass)

Let's try to at least to keep it civilised.--Richardb43 12:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Per Richard, the article seemed like a soapbox. That is inexcusable even for talk pages, but for articles it represents a whole new level of nerve. I've accordingly made some major changes and have described my reasons in the talk page.UberCryxic 06:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

November Esperanza Newsletter[edit]

Program Feature: Admin Coaching (needs coaches!)
Admin Coaching needs coaches!!! If you are an administrator, or even a generally experienced user, do consider signing up to be a coach.

Admin Coaching, now being coordinated by HighwayCello, is a program for people who want help learning some of the more subtle aspects of Wikipedia policy and culture. People are matched with experienced users who are willing to offer coaching. The program is designed for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins.

What's New?
The Tutorial Drive is a new Esperanza program! In an effort to make complicated processes on Wikipedia easier for everyone, Esperanza working to create and compile a list of tutorials about processes here on Wikipedia. Consider writing one!
A discussion on how Esperanza relates to the encyclopedia has been started; please add your thoughts.
Many thanks to MiszaBot, courtesy of Misza13, for delivering the newsletter.
  • The list of proposed programs has been updated, with some proposals being archived.
  • There is now a new program: the Tutorial Drive! Consider writing a tutorial on something you are good at doing on Wikipedia.
  • The suggestion of adding a cohesive look to all the Esperanza pages is being considered; join the discussion if you are interested!
  • In order to make a useful interlanguage welcome template, those involved in translation projects will be asked what English Wikipedia policies are most important and confusing to editors coming from other language Wikipedias.
  • A discussion of Esperanza's role in Wikipedia is being held, with all thoughts of all Esperanzians wanted!
  • Shreshth91 informed everyone that he will be leaving the Esperanza council as life is rather busy; his spot will be filled by the runner up from the last election, HighwayCello.
Signed...
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SFD notification[edit]

This message is to notify you that a stub template and category that you created ({{creationism-stub}} and Category:Creationism stubs) is up for deletion at WP:SFD. Please join the discussion. Thanks. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 18:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Creationist Userbox[edit]

I've been looking for a Creationist userbox, I noticed you would like one too. I created one:

Gen 1:1This user is a Creationist

. I hope it helps.

SonPraises 17:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP Christianity[edit]

Hi, I saw your name on the WikiProject Christianity Membership page.

I've made some changes to the WP Christianity main project page, added several sup-project pages, created a few task forces section, and proposed several more possible changes so that we can really start making some serious progress on the project. Please stop by and see my comments on the project talk page here and consider joining a task force or helping out with improving and contributing to our sub-projects. Thanks for your time! Nswinton 13:35, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just Saying Hi[edit]

Hey, Arturo7. I came across your Userpage and read the story of your journey from darknees into light. Congratulations on joining us, brother! Just one question: why is your page in third-person? Ben 10 10:10, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

June 2007 Wikiproject Christianity Newsletter[edit]

June 2007 Automatically delivered by HermesBot

NOO MORE USER PAGE![edit]

I don't want to have an user page! so please do not revert the blanking ive made onto it! Arturo #7 00:53, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion of Template:User chile[edit]

A tag has been placed on Template:User chile requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 19:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image:Caria_dinosaur.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

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Image:Caria_woman.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

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WikiProject Christianity Newsletter[edit]

- Tinucherian (talk) 11:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter[edit]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter[edit]

Christianity WikiProject Newsletter - July 2008[edit]

This Newsletter was automatically delivered by TinucherianBot (talk) 08:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC) [reply]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter - April 2009[edit]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter - May 2009[edit]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter - June 2009[edit]

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter - July 2009[edit]

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter

Archives  |  Tip Line  |  Editors

The Christianity WikiProject Newsletter
Issue X - July 2009
Project news
  • The Christianity project and its related projects currently have 76 FAs, 8 FLs, and 148 GAs. We gained new recognized content in each field, with 4 FAs promoted, 2 FLs, and 3 GAs. Congratulations and a big thank you to all those who worked on these articles!
Member news
Other news
  • I am still working on the categorization matter. With any luck, we should have some results by the end of the month. There are also some discussions regarding project related activities at Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/General Forum. One issue in particular that might be addressed is possible elections of new coordinators. Anyone interested in serving in such a capacity is more than welcome to indicate as much.
Related projects news
Member contest of the month
  • The previous contests are still ongoing, because of the extreme amount of time the categorization is taking me. Anyone who can bring any of the few Stub class articles among the project's 1000 most often accessed articles by the end of July will get an award. Please see the details Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity#Project challenge of the month.
Christianity related news
From the Members

Welcome to the Tenth issue of the WikiProject Christianity newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

It has been a long time since the last coordinators election. There is a lot for people to do, and I certainly would welcome seeing any individuals with an interest in such a position put themselves forward as candidates. I in particular would very much like to see some degree of "specialization" in the coordinators, so that, for instance, we might have someone knowledgable about some of the specific Christian faith traditions or other main subjects, like Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, Mormonism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, art, theology, and so on. If any parties who have experience with some of our faith- or- subject-based content would be interested in being candidates, I would love to see them do so. Please feel free to take part in the discussion regading what the minimum number of category items is, and how to deal with the non-qualifying categories, on the General Forum page.

John Carter (talk) 23:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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File permission problem with File:Winnipesaukee stone.jpg[edit]

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File source problem with File:Noah's house.jpg[edit]

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Also File:Girifalco1.gif. —Bkell (talk) 06:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File:Arturo subercaseaux.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

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Ichthus: January 2012[edit]


ICHTHUS

January 2012

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Wikipedia • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
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Ichthus: May 2012[edit]