Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemistry

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Polonol[edit]

Hello. I can't find a single mention of Polonol online in a reliable source. Can someone please check the book sources cited? Thanks. Capewearer (talk) 20:37, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Well the first reference "Chemie des Poloniums" does not mention any chemical like that. There are some organo-polonium compounds there, but not R-Po-OH. The second references does not mention it either. There is a Polonium section that fails to mention it. This is looking like something made up, or a hoax.[1] Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:38, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
SciFinder has no entries for polonol. Zero. There are two papers that (barely) mention C-Po-H. Good luck if you go with AFD, seems like it is really difficult to lawyer through that site. --Smokefoot (talk) 22:15, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
@Graeme Bartlett: the structure is R-Po-H, as Smokefoot notes, not R-Po-OH. Let me know if anyone needs help with the AfD process. DMacks (talk) 04:03, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for that, but the sources provided do not have that either. Dimethyl-, diephenyl- or diethyl polonium gets a mention. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:23, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
I have invited the writer to join in the discussion here. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:20, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
The article appears to be a translation of the article on zhwiki about this substance (zh:釙醇). "Not citing here that our article is a translation of some other source (with cite to that source)" is a license violation. Pinging User:A2569875 who wrote that article there and seems somewhat active here on enwiki and on commons in the chemistry genres. DMacks (talk) 04:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
If it is a translation then I cannot claim it was made up. So I strike my comment. Perhaps the name is made in analogy to tellurol. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 04:23, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
It could totally be made up or a hoax, just one that originated external to enwiki. That is, User:Nucleus hydro elemon could have been acting in good faith and topic itself still ends up being nonsense. Perhaps they didn't actually check the sources they transcribed? The original author can help clear this up I hope. DMacks (talk) 04:40, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry. In fact, I have not been able to find any valid references since 2012. The Chinese Wikikipedia page has been requested to be deleted, WP:Articles for deletion/Polonol (釙醇). cc DMacks, Graeme Bartlett.-- Nanachi🐰Fruit Tea(宇帆·☎️·☘️) 06:09, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for checking up on it! DMacks (talk) 14:27, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

On periodic trend grounds I am already rather sceptical that this exists. Due to relativistic destabilisation of the 6p3/2 orbital Po is actually significantly more metallic than Te and it should be quite unhappy in the −2 oxidation state. doi:10.1002/9781119951438.eibc0182 might be useful (it's a 2011 review of organopolonium chemistry): it is quite short (as expected for the subject), but it looks like what is known is mostly dialkyls/diaryls as well as tetravalent compounds of the form Ar3PoX and Ar2PoX2. Nothing about polonols that I can see. Double sharp (talk) 15:14, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Maybe organopolonium compound should become blue? DMacks (talk) 15:44, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
Good edit [2], Headbomb. Now here is a diff: [3] -> [4][5]. -DePiep (talk) 08:23, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Go troll elsewhere. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 08:24, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
There are literatures about organopolonium compounds (R2Po, R2PoX2, etc.), but none about polonol. --Leiem (talk) 17:33, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
@DMacks: It is blue now. It'll probably remain a stub for a long while, though. ;) Double sharp (talk) 04:52, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
@Double sharp: Thanks for your work on that! DMacks (talk)|

The reference "Chemie des Poloniums" turns up in other Polonium articles in equally suspect ways. Polonium hydride: "Experiments conducted on the trace scale show indications that the reaction between polonium metal and nascent hydrogen may produce polonium hydride", nascent hydrogen huh? --Project Osprey (talk) 20:42, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you all for your quick help with this. I've proposed Polonol for deletion, pointing back to this discussion in the deletion rationale. Capewearer (talk) 18:49, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
@Graeme Bartlett: thanks for your delete vote, the article in chinese wikipedia has already deleted [6]. Consider delete English article?-- Nanachi🐰Fruit Tea(宇帆·☎️·☘️) 04:46, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
I did vote, and I was considering voting on some of those other Chinese chemical pages. But I now see most were speedily kept as they were real compounds, so no need. We should have just let the prod run, as there was only a dispute over the prod2. But now we can let the AFD run, and it will not be contestable, until someone writes about the topic elsewhere. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:29, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry I hadn't made clear to the PROD2 editor that I was not contesting the notion of PROD itself. But it would likely have then been deleted and I didn't want that editor's scientific and WP-policy statements to go un-contested...somewhere. Oh well. DMacks (talk) 14:11, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a salt[edit]

IUPAC definition of a salt: "A chemical compound consisting of an assembly of cations and anions." (https://goldbook.iupac.org/terms/view/S05447)

Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a salt.--Smokefoot (talk) 16:22, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

Ok? Is this somehow controversial? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:02, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
Since it is dissolved in water and seems not to exist as a pure solid, it is not a salt. In any case it is a strong alkali or base. We can thank Edgar181 in 2006 for the above statement. From the definition it would be not a salt, as it is not a compound. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:31, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
That's rather irrelevant to what salts are, no? See also [7] Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a quaternary ammonium salt generally used as an anisotropic etchant for silicon due to its high silicon etching rate.[1][2] and [8] Tetramethylammonium hydroxide is a solid in the hydrated form. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:21, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
I wonder if colleagues would allow CuSO4.5H2O (aka blue vitriol) to be called a salt? If so maybe we can call the monohydrate of Me4NOH also a salt. But maybe not, who knows?--Smokefoot (talk) 22:39, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
structure of Me4NOH monohydrate.
Hydrate of a salt? --Leiem (talk) 17:46, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
IMO, it would not matter whether it's a hydrate or not. At the extreme, NaCl(aq) "salt water", which includes many water molecules wrapped around each cation and each anion, is just as much of a salt as NaCl(s) "table salt." If a salt has one or more waters of hydration in its formula, any working chemist would say that it's still a salt. When I teach this to my students, I say "CuSO4.5H2O is a salt of copper and sulfate which incorporates five waters of hydration." I guess I could be wrong about all that, but I don't think so. KeeYou Flib (talk) 14:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Headbomb, apparently so (among some editors at least). I responded there. They seem to be talking round in circles and escallating personal claims, rather than using WP:RS and remaining WP:CIVIL...not a recipe for improving WP articles. DMacks (talk) 04:11, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
Why would it have to be anhydrous for it to be a salt? --Project Osprey (talk) 20:18, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
I was just trying to anticipate any possible objections. Heck, I am surprised we are having this convesation. Maybe you can penetrate the arguments by JonRichfield and his friend here here. --Smokefoot (talk) 20:52, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
... I must confess that I cannot. These discussions trend to drag on. Good luck --Project Osprey (talk) 22:09, 28 March 2020 (UTC)
I was confused by Smokefoot's original statement, whether calling it a salt is supported or opposed. I will also clarify that Edgar181 was the user that wrote "Tetramethylammonium hydroxide" in the second revision of the page. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:32, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Chemistry of ascorbic acid and Vitamin C: Wikidata items and interlanguages links[edit]

Please see Talk:Chemistry of ascorbic acid#Wikidata items and interlanguages links. --Mezze stagioni (talk) 12:58, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Cannabigerolic acid[edit]

Could somebody check my work for cannabigerolic acid -- first time I've done a chemistry article, I think. I'd like to include the structural formula File:CBGA molecule.svg in the infobox. ☆ Bri (talk) 23:20, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

@Bri:The article looks fine as far as it goes. Your structure drawing has a bad clash between the terminal dimethyl group of the sidechain and one of the phenol oxygens. I took the liberty of uploading a second version more or less exactly as in Chemspider (did you know you can download molfiles from there?). I then reverted my upload back to yours but if you prefer mine you should be able to re-revert to that. Michael D. Turnbull (talk) 16:16, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Sad news[edit]

I have some sad news to report ... Ronhjones, a prolific member of this project, passed away on 7 April last year, the day he made his last edit. Tributes are at his talk page. Graham87 05:26, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I have some even sadder news that I can now share publicly: Ron and his wife Sue died together in a house fire, as noted in their obituary from the London Inland Waterways Association newsletter. The friend of theirs who confirmed his passing also told me this info, but I didn't want to say it here without confirming that it was publicly available or I had permission. Graham87 16:24, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
It's probably worth a note here that I nominated one of his chemistry pages, UK Chemical Reaction Hazards Forum, for deletion. Graham87 13:30, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Styrene[edit]

An apparent styrene leak in India has killed 13 people and injured many more. As such there's been a sudden surge in editing on the 'Health effects' section of that page, not all of it to our usual standards. --Project Osprey (talk) 08:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Dichlorine pentoxide[edit]

Both of the references in this article mentioned that Cl2O5 is non-existent. --Leiem (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out this nonsense writing. ChemAbs has about six citations. --Smokefoot (talk) 11:58, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
@Nucleus hydro elemon:. User:Nucleus hydro elemon is contributing a lot of dubious content. Really unfortunate.--Smokefoot (talk) 13:31, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Crisscross method[edit]

I came across the Crisscross method article. To me it seems like an almost trivial method, with just a single source (a textbook that mentions it on one page). Is this method notable enough to satisfy WP:N (and WP:NOTTEXTBOOK)? —Bkell (talk) 18:45, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Support. I suggest you invoke WP:AFD Michael D. Turnbull (talk) 17:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
Listed: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crisscross method. —Bkell (talk) 19:12, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Atom FAR[edit]

I did NOT nominate this article for FAR-- just the doing nominations that were not done by the editor who did.

User:Kurzon has nominated Atom for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:27, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Top million substances[edit]

Hello, I’m working with User:Egon Willighagen from Wikidata and others to compile a list of what we consider to be the one million most important chemicals. This list will be used to prioritize what we look at for both Wikidata and Wikipedia, and possibly other external groups that interact with us. These chemicals could include things like the elements and other basic substances you would encounter in your chemistry education, chemicals encountered in everyday life (e.g. in detergents, food additives or hair gel) as well as more niche substances such as pharmaceuticals, polymers, pollutants, biologically important materials, etc. Are there any specific collections of substances you would recommend us to look at? Please post any suggested lists or databases below. I'll also post on WT:Chemicals. Many thanks, Walkerma (talk) 18:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Scandium perchlorate[edit]

The first two refs in this article use templates that have nothing to do with chemistry. I think some of the links in the chembox are wrong also. This is way beyond me. Can someone here take a look at. Thanks. MB 02:20, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

This whole article is an unattributed translation from zh:高氯酸钪 by User:Nucleus hydro elemon, whose many such articles including copy-pasting templates without the barest of checks that they have the same function in enwiki as zhwiki. Nucleus, please fix your mess and stop making such messes, as it has long become a WP:DE/WP:CIR problem. User:Leiem, you seem to contribute to many of the zhwiki articles involved, so perhaps you can talk to them about their edit habits in a way or language that is understandable. DMacks (talk) 02:35, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
...well, Nucleus won't be editing for the next day, but at least this is an explanation of the weird situation MB noted. DMacks (talk) 02:50, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
I have left a message on his zhwp talk page. --Leiem (talk) 06:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
In this article, the refs in Chinese are about the coordination compounds synthesized using scandium perchlorate as the reactant. --Leiem (talk) 06:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)
Everything contributed by User:Nucleus hydro elemon is garbage. He mainly contributes to obscure topics. --Smokefoot (talk) 12:29, 9 July 2020 (UTC)