Template talk:Country data Ottoman Empire

Template:Country data Ottoman Empire is permanently protected from editing because it is a heavily used or highly visible template. Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by consensus, editors may use {{edit template-protected}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's documentation to add usage notes or categories. Any contributor may edit the template's sandbox. This template does not have a testcases subpage. You can create the testcases subpage here.

Turkey Template‑class

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Some claim: Practically equal to the present-day flag of Turkey.
The present day flag was standardized (geometric proportions and its specific color) in 1936. Standardization of the flag made these two flags significantly differ in the size placement of the symbols and color. It is not enough to match the "moon" and "star" and claim these flags are same. There was no need for that a law without creating that difference. It was the intention of the law makers to make the flags differ but keep the sentimental meaning same. "Moon" and "star" is a common theme in many Turkish states that share the same sentiment and also some other states. Every flag has its own differences which makes them unique as they represent unique states or organizations. You can not ignore these differences. Ottoman Empire and Republic of Turkey are different states which have different alliances (different "sovereignty"). You can not use current Turkish flag because it has "moon and star with a red background and this is close enough" for the Ottoman Flag. Simply they are different. Thanks. --OttomanReference 20:37, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove that flag, it's both inaccurate and ugly. Here's the correct flag, with sources linked at the description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Late_Ottoman_Flag_1844-1922.png Res Gestæ Divi Augusti (talk) 10:30, 18 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen this argument brought by User:Lambiam, User:Res Gestæ Divi Augusti and User:Flavius Belisarius. I checked the images brought by all these users. The "red" in these images are not standard, but all of them have a darker red. All these images have the "Crescent" centered in the flag. The "Five-pointed star" tends to be closer to the crescent. Lets look at the facts: There was a standardization of the Turkish flag in 1936. standardization of Turkish flag in 1936 This means that beginning with 1936, the flag of Republic of Turkey is uniquely different. I also look at the proposed Late_Ottoman_Flag_1844-1922.png. I do not see any difference between standardized Turkish flag and this proposal. Lets assume that we will never know what the Ottoman flag was. We know that Republic of Turkey's flag become different as of 1936.--Kemalist (talk) 03:00, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

{{editprotected}} Please add an interwiki link for the Macedonian version. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Тиверополник (talk • contribs)

Could you please add it to the /doc page? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:42, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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May I suggest changes to this template- Сербијана (talk) 22:57, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

| alias = Ottoman Empire
| flag alias = Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg
| flag alias-1299 = Flag of the Ottoman Sultanate (1299-1453).svg
| flag alias-1383 = Flag of the Ottoman Sultanate (1299-1453).svg
| flag alias-1453 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1453-1517).svg
| flag alias-1517 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1517-1844).svg
| flag alias-1798 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1517-1844).svg
| flag alias-naval = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg
| link alias-naval = Ottoman Navy
| flag alias-1844 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg

| var1 = 1299
| var2 = 1453
| var3 = 1517

• Not done: Seems like your code above doesn't work very well by itself, could you maybe put it in a sandbox and put up a side by side comparison of what it will look like on a testcases page? Thanks. Technical 13 (talk) 13:47, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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I have located the flag of the Ottoman Army (from 1793 until dissolution in 1923), in the existing File:War Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg. I request that the following lines thus be added to the code for the template, since the army flag has not been added yet. The first line is for adding the flag as the army icon, and the second line is to fix the army name from the redundant default "Ottoman Empire Army" to the more correct "Ottoman Army":

| flag alias-army = War Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg | link alias-army = Ottoman Army  

Thank you very much and Happy New Year. Ithinkicahn (talk) 03:49, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Done Technical 13 (talk) 00:37, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Although short-lived, the Ottoman Air Force existed in the last few years of the Empire, and had its own insignia: Ottomaanse Vlag.png. The following lines are to include this (as well as to make the Air Force alias into the proper "Ottoman Air Force").

| flag alias-air force = Ottomaanse Vlag.png | link alias-air force = Ottoman Air Force 

Ithinkicahn (talk) 06:35, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done -  Ottoman Air Force -- John of Reading (talk) 08:40, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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The 1798 flag has recently turned out to be a naval ensign, not a flag of the Empire itself (as per its recent move in Commons and the last edit on this page). This edit will move it to a naval flag variant of the correct date of 1793 (replacing the incorrect "1798 flag" with the correct flag at the time, the 1517 flag) and will add 2 other navy flag variants, the 1844 (the latest one) naval variant being the redundancy for the default naval flag (like how the regular 1844 flag is the redundancy for the default regular flag). All per Flags of the Ottoman Empire. Here are the specific fixes to make on this template:

Replace:

| flag alias-1798 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire (1793–1844).svg 

with:

| flag alias-1517 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1517-1844).svg 

Replace:

| var3 = 1798 

with:

| var3 = 1517 | var4 = naval-1453 | var5 = naval-1793 | var6 = naval-1844 

Directly under:

| flag alias-naval = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg 

add:

| flag alias-naval-1453 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire (1453–1793).svg | flag alias-naval-1793 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire (1793–1844).svg | flag alias-naval-1844 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg 

Ithinkicahn (talk) 17:55, 26 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: –  Additional information needed – You have done well using the X to Y format, which makes it easy to see the changes; however, your second edit above does not appear to account for an already existing "var4 = 1844". – Paine Ellsworth ^CLIMAX! 13:36, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch, thanks. Here's the entire X to Y updated:

Replace:

| flag alias-1798 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire (1793–1844).svg 

with:

| flag alias-1517 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1517-1844).svg 

Replace:

| var3 = 1798 | var4 = 1844 

with:

| var3 = 1517 | var4 = 1844 | var5 = naval-1453 | var6 = naval-1793 | var7 = naval-1844 

Directly under:

| flag alias-naval = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg 

add:

| flag alias-naval-1453 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire (1453–1793).svg | flag alias-naval-1793 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire (1793–1844).svg | flag alias-naval-1844 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg 

 Done and for the future, Ithinkicahn, the <pre> & </pre> tags can be used in place of the <nowiki> & </nowiki> tags if you like, as in:

<pre> Place visible wikimarkup code here. </pre> 

– Paine  10:04, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

When slavishly reproducing the information on Flags of the Ottoman Empire, did it not occur to anyone to notice that all of that page was completely unreferenced? The supposed "1453" flag is inspired by Bosch paintings. [1] The supposed "1513" flag is from a random 1862 chart and probably not historical in any way.[2] The "1383" solid red flag doesn't even pretend to be based on any reference.

It is worse to deliberately depict false information than to depict no information. Until somebody can present decent references for any pre-19th-century Ottoman flags, it will be better to show no flag. --dab (𒁳) 09:44, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

as removing the offending entries made the situation even worse (because existing calls to them now show up as the 1844 flag), I suppose they have to be kept using File:Invis flag.gif for the time being. But the proper solution would of course be to get rid of calls the "1453 Ottoman flag" from articles. There is no "1453 Ottoman flag". --dab (𒁳) 09:53, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Good thing those fictitious, unsourced flags were removed, as mentioned in the previous section. Unfortunately it seems army and navy flags remained; File:War Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg and File:Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg are completely made-up as well. They appear to be the product of a Wikipedian's imagination, no indication that they were ever used by anyone. We need to use the country's flag as the army flag as is normally done in those cases, hence the following change is needed:

• "| flag alias-army = War Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg" → "| flag alias-army = Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg"
• "| flag alias-naval = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg" → "| flag alias-naval = Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg"
• "| flag alias-naval-1844 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire.svg" → "| flag alias-naval-1844 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg"
• "| flag alias-naval-1793 = Naval Ensign of the Ottoman Empire (1793–1844).svg" → "| flag alias-naval-1793 = Invis flag.gif Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg"

Orwellianist (talk) 22:29, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason one variant is requested to use a placeholder whereas the others need to use the national flag? Also note that simply removing a variant should have the same effect as it being set to the same filename as the "main" flag. SiBr₄ (talk) 11:30, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I thought replacing the 1793 flag with the official Ottoman flag could be controversial as it was not officialized before 1844; however actually sources indicate that a star and crescent flag was used well before that, although we don't know if it looked like the version standardized in 1844. Actually, in my opinion, the best option would be to use the national flag in all those cases, i.e. delete all pre-1844 place holders as done here, plus the army and navy flags that I mentioned. I don't see the point of showing an empty flag in battles before 1844 just because the flag came to take its final form at a later time; in a lot of countries the flag doesn't appear at the start, but we still use the flag in all ages. The function of the flag in those pages is to visually represent which country we are talking about, and the 1844 flag does it well enough in the case of Ottomans. Even if we don't do that, it is still safe to use it when the template calls for a 1793 flag, so I edited that line accordingly. Deleting all four lines from the template should work just as well, in terms of showing the correct flag, but hovering over the flag would no longer show "Ottoman Army", "Ottoman Navy" etc, so it is probably better to just replace the flags..--Orwellianist (talk) 17:17, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That is, I think all the following lines should be removed from the template:

| flag alias-1383 = Invis flag.gif | border-1383 = | flag alias-1453 = Invis flag.gif | border-1453 = | flag alias-1517 = Invis flag.gif | border-1517 = 

| flag alias-naval-1453 = Invis flag.gif | border-naval-1453 = 

| var1 = 1383 | var2 = 1453 | var3 = 1517 

| var5 = naval-1453 

And the other four lines should be corrected like mentioned above. Removing these lines is not crucial, they won't have much effect on Wikipedia (since they show empty flags, those parameters have already been removed from almost all pages anyway); but changing the other four lines is urgently necessary, as they show fictitious flags at the moment.--Orwellianist (talk) 17:30, 6 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Orwellianist:  Done --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:41, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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File:Flag of the Ottoman Empire.svg has been deleted, please replace with File:Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1844–1922).svg wherever applicable. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2022 (UTC) Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Terasail^[✉️] 16:29, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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| flag alias-1299 = Flag of the Ottoman Sultanate (1299-1453).svg | flag alias-1453 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1453-1517).svg | flag alias-1517 = Flag of Ottoman Empire (1517-1793).svg | flag alias-1517b = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (1517-1844).svg | flag alias-1793 = Flag of the Ottoman Empire (eight pointed star).svg  | var1 = 1299 | var2 = 1453  | var3 = 1517 | var4 = 1517b | var5 = 1793   

ACPP10122728 (talk) 12:00, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Completed. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]