Talk:Ukrainian diaspora

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Just wondering: from where has this article the statistics? More exactly, who invented them? It says that in 1931, in Romania there were 1,200,000 Ukrainians, while the 1930 Romanian census said there were 583,000 Ruthenians/Ukrainians. [2] bogdan 12:33, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also the Polish statistics seem just plain wrong. 141.213.210.108 05:59, 7 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Population stats from Ukrainians[edit]

That article has too much detail in its infobox, so I'm copying that here, to be merged into this article. —Michael Z. 2009-02-16 15:52 z

Russia 2,942,961 [1]
Canada 1,209,805 [2][3]
United States 890,000 [2][4]
Kazakhstan 550,000 [5]
Moldova 375,000 [2][6]
Brazil 400,000 [2][7]
Argentina 305,000–500,000 [2][8]
Belarus 248,000 [2][9]
Germany 128,100 [2][10]
Czech Republic 126,613 [11]
Italy 120,070 [2][12]
Spain (2007) 69,081 [2][13]
Portugal 66,048 [2][14]
Latvia 61,589 [2][15]
Romania 61,350 [2][16]
Slovakia 55,000 [2][17]
Kyrgyzstan 50,442 [2][18]
Poland 40,000 [2][19]
Turkey 35,000 [2][16]
Australia 37,581 [20]
Azerbaijan 30,000 [2][21]
Lithuania 22,488 [2][22]
Estonia 22,300 [2][23]
Greece 14,149 [2][24]
Rest of world 200,000

References

  1. ^ "All-Russian population census, 2001. National composition of population by region". Russian Federal Service of State Statistics (in Russian). Демоскоп Weekly. 2002. Retrieved 2007-08-05. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
  2. ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t Statistics include non-primary ancestry reports. "Ukrainians" being of partial descent figured in numbers.
  3. ^ "Ethnic origins, 2006 counts, for Canada, provinces and territories - 20% sample data".
  4. ^ "Ancestry: 200" United States Census Bureau. June 2004. Retrieved on 2007-08-05.
  5. ^ (2005 census)
  6. ^ "Moldova". CIA - The World Factbook. 2007. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  7. ^ "Governo do Paraná".
  8. ^ "Article". Ucrania.com (in Spanish). Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  9. ^ "Belarus". CIA - The World Factbook. 2007. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  10. ^ "Startseite". Statistisches Bundesamt Deutschland. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  11. ^ Number of foreigners in the CR, Czech Statistics Office, 31 May, 2008
  12. ^ "Cittadini Stranieri. Popolazione residente per sesso e cittadinanza al 31 Dicembre 2007. Italia - Tutti i Paesi". Statistiche demografiche ISTAT (in Italian). 2005. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  13. ^ Instituto Nacional de Estadística: Avance del Padrón Municipal a 1 de enero de 2007. Datos provisionales. [1].
  14. ^ "Imigrantes do Leste". Imigrantes (in Portuguese). Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  15. ^ "Latvia: Ethnic composition of resident population in regions, cities and districts at beginning of 2002". emz-berlin.de. 2002. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  16. ^ a b "Recensamant Romania 2002". Agentia Nationala pentru Intreprinderi Mici si Mijlocii (in Romanian). 2002. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  17. ^ "Slovakia". CIA - The World Factbook. 2007. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  18. ^ "National LIFE Strategy for Phase IV in Kyrgyzstan and Workplan for 2001-2004". Life. Retrieved 2007-08-05. {{cite web}}: line feed character in |title= at position 63 (help)
  19. ^ "Poland: Stock of foreigners (selected components) by major citizenships, 2000". emz-berlin.de. 2004. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  20. ^ "2006 Census of Australia.
  21. ^ I. Umudlu (2001). "Azerbaijan has preserved its `unique country' image because of the population's ethnic composition". Ayna. Eurasianet. Retrieved 2007-08-05. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help); line feed character in |title= at position 67 (help)
  22. ^ "Lithuania: Population by ethnic nationality* (2001)". emz-berlin.de. 2001. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  23. ^ "Estonia". CIA - The World Factbook. 2007. Retrieved 2007-08-05.
  24. ^ "Data on immigrants in Greece, from Census 2001, Legalization applications 1998, and valid Residence Permits, 2004" migrantsingreece.org. April 2004. Retrieved on 2007-08-05.

Crimean Tatar diaspora[edit]

What about Crimean Tatar diaspora? Crimea is 100% in Ukraine. --88.135.118.46 (talk) 09:32, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Collage[edit]

Lvivske wrote, “if you want it removed, the onus is on YOU to start a discussion”. I'm afraid in this case it's opposite. This image was added recently by user SeikoEn [3], so those, who are against this image, are just restoring the status quo. — Glebchik (talk) 20:11, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It was over a month ago, what's the statute of limitations on what the *new* status quo is?--Львівське (talk) 20:15, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that someone notices it only in a month doesn't change the situation. If you make an edit and get reverted, you have to go to talk page and prove that you're right, not to start an edit war. — Glebchik (talk) 20:28, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we shall replace Dostoyevsky and Tchaykovsky who did not maintain their feeling of Ukrainian national identity with Gogol and Skovoroda, respectively? --217.118.78.118 (talk) 20:21, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But they are not diaspora, are they? — Glebchik (talk) 20:28, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
At least they are more Ukrainian. Must say, Warhol and Matvienko are doubtful, too... --217.118.78.111 (talk) 20:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Skovoroda is NOT diaspora, but Gogol is, notably. Tchaykovsky could go either way, as he had at least some awareness of his father's background. Warhol is not Ukrainian, but Rusyn from Presov.--Galassi (talk) 20:47, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to agree that Anne of Kiev isn't diaspora, quite the opposite really. How about we get a list of all names that should be on there, and I'll make up a new photo?--Львівське (talk) 21:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think either Dostoyevsky or Tchaikovsky belong. Gogol does.Faustian (talk) 03:11, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How about Medvedev, his mothers side was Ukrainian. Or would that make his grandmother a member of the diaspora, but not him?--Львівське (talk) 06:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think being a member of the diaspora implies an association with the Ukrainian community in some way, be it a church, organization, or Ukrainian friends and/or being a Ukrainian immigrant or a self-identified Ukrainian. I don't think that simply having a Ukrainian parent or grandparent makes one a member of the Ukrainian diaspora. But that's my opinion.Faustian (talk) 06:20, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Faustian, I agree with you. Besides, your definition of "diaspora" is very much like what Ukrainians in Ukraine think of it. This is exactly what they mean speaking about "Ukrainian diaspora" abroad. An ethnic Ukrainian who lives abroad but does NOT "keep their Ukrainian roots" should be deemed to be much the opposite of being part of diaspora, but more of a "betrayer". My opinion may seem POV-ish, but I think everyone of you folks know this is true if you be quite honest about it. --Garik 11 (talk) 06:53, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Kvitka Cisyk should be included by all means. --Garik 11 (talk) 07:03, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah you're right. This topic should pertain only to those who keep a connection or maintain the self identity. We should think of this as, if this were a census and the box was for "ethnic group", they would fill in Ukrainian (and hence where we get the population statistics anyway)--Львівське (talk) 07:05, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Right. But even in case of an "ethnic group" the Scandinavian Anne of Kiev would not qualify (as I understand you've come to agree with me on this one). Let's get a list of names and a new photo. --Garik 11 (talk) 07:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Anne would qualify if she was living abroad and identified as a Ruthene or something....fits for Uke article, not diaspora

--Львівське (talk) 07:19, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Suggestions[edit]

For athletes I have a whole slew of notable professional hockey players that would apply. Jack Palance should stay. Maybe add Eugene Melnyk, he's well known in Canada at least. Vernadsky is a good pick. Brezhnev should be included. Bondar is also a good pick...--Львівське (talk) 07:19, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure about Brezhnev. Sergey Korolyov self-identified but did he keep a connection? --Garik 11 (talk) 07:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well Brezhnev maintained that he was Ukrainian until later in his career, then he just said Russian. No idea about Korolyov--Львівське (talk) 12:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yet Brezhnev's parents were not Ukrainians but ethnic Russians who both moved to the Ukraine from Kursk Oblast. He's an ethnic Russian bearing a Russian surname. Korolyov's mother was Ukrainian and at least once in his life he self-identified as Ukrainian, that's all I know. I still think Warhol, although he self-identified as Rusyn, could qualify, because there is a widespread point of view, at least in Ukraine, that Rusyns and Ukrainians are just the same. Maybe it's kind of POV-ish, but again the whole discussion is POV-ish. --Garik 11 (talk) 15:33, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well Kursk is a historically Ukrainian region so that's splitting hairs. "Ethnic Russian" means nothing really, especially if you go by surname (some surnames are Ukrainian and then Russified (ie. Koval > Kovalev), others could be half Rus/Ukr mix but still self identify as Ukrainian, etc.). For Warhol...it is a fine line, but since he identifies as part of that minority Rusyn diaspora, that's where he belongs. It's like Wayne Gretzky, his grandmother was from Ukraine and they spoke Ukrainian in Canada, but he ignorantly self identifies as Polish so it would be OR or POV or what have you if I included him on this.--Львівське (talk) 19:00, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]



Question, what consitutes the Ukrainian diaspora? This question was raised at a book release for Paul Robert Magocsi last night, where he said Poles, Russian, etc. who come from Ukraine also are part of this group; brought up an example of Mennonites from Ukraine who still identify it as their homeland and send money back home, despite there being no Mennonites there left. What do you guys think?--Львівське (talk) 23:22, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting question. My unscientific opinion is that it's along cultural ethnic lines. The Mennonites are part of a Mennonite diaspora with origins in the geographical region of Ukraine. Otherwise Jews and Palestinians in Toronto would be part of the same diaspora too, which seems strange. But it can be said that Ukraine has more than one diaspora.Faustian (talk) 01:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In a way I agree with Faustian. I think we should stick as close as possible to the "ethnic Ukrainian" factor which should be the first indicator. The others such as self-identification and involvement in the diaspora activities should be considered next. Magocsi's opinion seems very much a marginal one. --Garik 11 (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
These could be included: Agapius Honcharenko, Vera Farmiga, Kvitka Cisyk. --Garik 11 (talk) 10:22, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Why delete Dmitry Bortniansky? Did he call himself a Lenko? The "Lemko isn't Ukrainian" POV is pretty fringe. Also, how dod you know this, he was from Hlukhiv after all--Львівське (talk) 18:22, 26 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
His Lemko father hails from Bartne, Low Beskids, but later moved to Hlukhiv and changed their surname to sound more Little Russian. His mother was Russian. But if you (and others) think he's okay, then go ahead and add him. I think he is. --Garik 11 (talk) 07:40, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well Lemkos *are* Ukrainian both ethnically and regionally unless are in the minority that says otherwise, and in his case his family changed their surname because they wanted to assimilate further as Ukrainian. That said, dunno if he makes the cut, but he certainly qualifies IMHO.--Львівське (talk) 14:57, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

due to political and economic factors, primarily collectivisation and the famine of 1920[edit]

Strange phrase, is it a Soviet language?Xx236 (talk) 07:13, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Ukranians in Finland?[edit]

The section Ukranians in Finland redirects to the Ukranians in Finland page which redirects to this page...

--Alberto (talk) 16:59, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Talk:Odessa § Requested move 11 July 2022[edit]

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Odessa § Requested move 11 July 2022. Rei (talk) 00:31, 12 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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